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	<title>Comments for JFDI</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cameronlevy.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cameronlevy.com</link>
	<description>From MIT to Startup</description>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Peter Fuller MBA</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Fuller MBA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 03:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-45</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey guys!

I cordially disagree with you :)

We are looking at how coupons would affect a business, which usually is a short time experience.

For a restaurant Gross Margin is Revenue less Cost of Goods sold, which is high, usually 60 to 70%.

Certainly a restaurant has a lot of fixed expenses and variable expenses that are technically fixed over certain levels of volume that are included to get to Net Profit.

If running a coupon campaign creates a situation where you have to increase staff and other costs then those costs do need to be included in the analysis.

However the major cost of goods sold is the cost of food.  Any addition costs, such as paper and linen costs per table are negligible.

Think of it this way, if a person came into my restaurant what are my variable costs in serving that customer.  Typically it is the cost of food.  All other expenses stay fixed,

Of course if a business sold 1,000 coupons to be used within a few days the scenario changes and I would argue that they are using coupons in a wrong way.

The best way for a restaurant to use coupons is to design the program to deliver new customers over reasonable periods of time so as not to increase their staff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys!</p>
<p>I cordially disagree with you :)</p>
<p>We are looking at how coupons would affect a business, which usually is a short time experience.</p>
<p>For a restaurant Gross Margin is Revenue less Cost of Goods sold, which is high, usually 60 to 70%.</p>
<p>Certainly a restaurant has a lot of fixed expenses and variable expenses that are technically fixed over certain levels of volume that are included to get to Net Profit.</p>
<p>If running a coupon campaign creates a situation where you have to increase staff and other costs then those costs do need to be included in the analysis.</p>
<p>However the major cost of goods sold is the cost of food.  Any addition costs, such as paper and linen costs per table are negligible.</p>
<p>Think of it this way, if a person came into my restaurant what are my variable costs in serving that customer.  Typically it is the cost of food.  All other expenses stay fixed,</p>
<p>Of course if a business sold 1,000 coupons to be used within a few days the scenario changes and I would argue that they are using coupons in a wrong way.</p>
<p>The best way for a restaurant to use coupons is to design the program to deliver new customers over reasonable periods of time so as not to increase their staff.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by bodellconsulting</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bodellconsulting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 18:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-44</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The gross margin for most restaurants are nowhere near 70% Peter, I promise you that. For a restaurant, looking at gross margins are not a &quot;proper&quot; way to assess the value of an offer either way because controllable expenses do not stay static as business increases. A restaurant must consider all costs of doing business when evaluating the worth of an offer, including the normal 55-65% prime cost (food + labor) they run, which only decreases slightly as business increases, AND the additional 10-12% in occupancy costs which may or may not be fixed depending on the type of lease a restaurant has. In addition, the remaining larger controllable expenses such as utilities, chemicals, paper goods and linens all increase as traffic increases. In all, a restaurants REAL cost for any offer is at least 70%, but usually closer to 80-85%. 

Also, restaurant owners do not collect $50 on a $100 tab paid for with a Groupon offer. They only get $25, usually minus any processing charges for Groupon which could be another $1.50 to $2.00. Groupon gets the rest.

Groupons also do not usually produce new customers for restaurants. They produce new customers for Groupon. THAT is the brand being advertised and the brand earning the loyalty. I wish I had a collection of all the feedback I&#039;ve heard from restaurant owners who have done Groupon, Restaurant.com, Livingsocial and the like.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gross margin for most restaurants are nowhere near 70% Peter, I promise you that. For a restaurant, looking at gross margins are not a &#8220;proper&#8221; way to assess the value of an offer either way because controllable expenses do not stay static as business increases. A restaurant must consider all costs of doing business when evaluating the worth of an offer, including the normal 55-65% prime cost (food + labor) they run, which only decreases slightly as business increases, AND the additional 10-12% in occupancy costs which may or may not be fixed depending on the type of lease a restaurant has. In addition, the remaining larger controllable expenses such as utilities, chemicals, paper goods and linens all increase as traffic increases. In all, a restaurants REAL cost for any offer is at least 70%, but usually closer to 80-85%. </p>
<p>Also, restaurant owners do not collect $50 on a $100 tab paid for with a Groupon offer. They only get $25, usually minus any processing charges for Groupon which could be another $1.50 to $2.00. Groupon gets the rest.</p>
<p>Groupons also do not usually produce new customers for restaurants. They produce new customers for Groupon. THAT is the brand being advertised and the brand earning the loyalty. I wish I had a collection of all the feedback I&#8217;ve heard from restaurant owners who have done Groupon, Restaurant.com, Livingsocial and the like.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Cameron Levy</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cameron Levy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 17:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-43</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter, thanks for your comment.  Profit margins = gross margins in my calculation.  These tend to be very low for restaurants (20-30%).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, thanks for your comment.  Profit margins = gross margins in my calculation.  These tend to be very low for restaurants (20-30%).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Peter Fuller MBA</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Fuller MBA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 19:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-42</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Cameron

There is a slight problem with your analysis :)

A proper evaluation would be based on Gross Margin, not Profit Margins, and restaurants typically have high Gross Margins.

Quick Example:

Coupon $20 for $60 worth of food

Typical bill for a couple - $100

Gross Margin 70%

Restaurant collects $50 on a $100 meal that cost them $30.00

So that new customer contributed $20 to the fixed overhead.

A business that sold exclusively on Gross Margin will go out of business, however it is possible to price a coupon in such a way as to not cost you anything to gain a new customer.

Offering a coupon is an advertsing strategy and should be evaluated as such.

Peter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Cameron</p>
<p>There is a slight problem with your analysis :)</p>
<p>A proper evaluation would be based on Gross Margin, not Profit Margins, and restaurants typically have high Gross Margins.</p>
<p>Quick Example:</p>
<p>Coupon $20 for $60 worth of food</p>
<p>Typical bill for a couple &#8211; $100</p>
<p>Gross Margin 70%</p>
<p>Restaurant collects $50 on a $100 meal that cost them $30.00</p>
<p>So that new customer contributed $20 to the fixed overhead.</p>
<p>A business that sold exclusively on Gross Margin will go out of business, however it is possible to price a coupon in such a way as to not cost you anything to gain a new customer.</p>
<p>Offering a coupon is an advertsing strategy and should be evaluated as such.</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>Comment on And So It Begins&#8230; by yghayqwpgx</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/01/31/hello-world/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yghayqwpgx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[icntt8  &lt;a href=&quot;http://umocghbjdjoc.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;umocghbjdjoc&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>icntt8  <a href="http://umocghbjdjoc.com/" rel="nofollow">umocghbjdjoc</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on And So It Begins&#8230; by Pink</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/01/31/hello-world/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pink]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad I&#039;ve finally found somehnitg I agree with!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad I&#8217;ve finally found somehnitg I agree with!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Bob Shmob</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Shmob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-39</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great to hear the voice of reason. As an MBA, academic, and former entreprenuer, I am constantly amazed at how few self-taught (and classically educated for that matter) business owners don&#039;t do the math and get hosed as a result! Groupon is doing a disservice to all but the most high-margined businesses. Keep spreading the word. America doesn&#039;t need its small businesses to fail!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to hear the voice of reason. As an MBA, academic, and former entreprenuer, I am constantly amazed at how few self-taught (and classically educated for that matter) business owners don&#8217;t do the math and get hosed as a result! Groupon is doing a disservice to all but the most high-margined businesses. Keep spreading the word. America doesn&#8217;t need its small businesses to fail!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Jim R</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-38</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Entrepreneur mag March 2011 had a story that featured Groupon &quot;Is groupon a good idea&quot; in the story an associate professor at Rice University Utpal Dholakia did a study that found only 66% of Groupon promotions were profitable and 32% lost money. Almost half the businesses surveyed said they would NOT participate in such a promotion again.  But Groupon and many other group buying sites are geared to the consumer and leave the business owners out to dry after the rush not sharing credit card processing fees or emails for follow-ups. One site that has roots here in Orlando is doing a mashup of Groupon and Craigslist for businesses. The business owner controls the price point and the coupon offer with a small monthly fee of $5 the business owner can post coupons and drive business as they want. The site is free for the consumer to use and with targeted emails local merchants drive local traffic to their location. Bigsavinglist.com is a great tool for both business owners and consumers but best of all it local.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entrepreneur mag March 2011 had a story that featured Groupon &#8220;Is groupon a good idea&#8221; in the story an associate professor at Rice University Utpal Dholakia did a study that found only 66% of Groupon promotions were profitable and 32% lost money. Almost half the businesses surveyed said they would NOT participate in such a promotion again.  But Groupon and many other group buying sites are geared to the consumer and leave the business owners out to dry after the rush not sharing credit card processing fees or emails for follow-ups. One site that has roots here in Orlando is doing a mashup of Groupon and Craigslist for businesses. The business owner controls the price point and the coupon offer with a small monthly fee of $5 the business owner can post coupons and drive business as they want. The site is free for the consumer to use and with targeted emails local merchants drive local traffic to their location. Bigsavinglist.com is a great tool for both business owners and consumers but best of all it local.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by bodellconsulting</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bodellconsulting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 05:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-37</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The numbers may be off Polina, but they are off the other direction. According to the National Restaurant Association, the average profit for a full service restaurant is about 4% of gross sales. For a quick service restaurant, it&#039;s around 10%. If anything, assuming a 20% return is too high, not too low. In addition to the costs listed, restaurants also have to consider the cost of current customers using Groupon discounts for food they would have paid full price for, and Groupon customers that may be filling tables at a discount that other customers could fill at full price. 

What most restaurants find with Groupon is that they do not earn new customers from Groupon. The customers that use Groupon are loyal to Groupon, not the restaurant. After they have used your 50% offer, they move on to the next restaurant offering 50% off. As a general rule, I can usually tell a restaurant is about 2 months from closing when I see them using Groupon.

When Groupon sell a $50 gift certificate to your restaurant for $25, Groupon keeps half of that $25. Your share is $12.50. No restaurant can make money collecting $12.50 on $50 worth of food. Their margins simply aren&#039;t that high.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers may be off Polina, but they are off the other direction. According to the National Restaurant Association, the average profit for a full service restaurant is about 4% of gross sales. For a quick service restaurant, it&#8217;s around 10%. If anything, assuming a 20% return is too high, not too low. In addition to the costs listed, restaurants also have to consider the cost of current customers using Groupon discounts for food they would have paid full price for, and Groupon customers that may be filling tables at a discount that other customers could fill at full price. </p>
<p>What most restaurants find with Groupon is that they do not earn new customers from Groupon. The customers that use Groupon are loyal to Groupon, not the restaurant. After they have used your 50% offer, they move on to the next restaurant offering 50% off. As a general rule, I can usually tell a restaurant is about 2 months from closing when I see them using Groupon.</p>
<p>When Groupon sell a $50 gift certificate to your restaurant for $25, Groupon keeps half of that $25. Your share is $12.50. No restaurant can make money collecting $12.50 on $50 worth of food. Their margins simply aren&#8217;t that high.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Groupon a Good Idea for Restaurants? by Quora</title>
		<link>http://cameronlevy.com/2010/11/21/groupon-is-not-for-everyone/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Quora]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 02:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameronlevy.com/?p=31#comment-36</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;What % of groupon deals have you taken as an existing customer vs. new customer?...&lt;/strong&gt;

When Groupon was the only player, almost all of the groupons I purchased were for new places. Since I joined LivingSocial and BuyWithMe, and since the novelty wore off, less than 50% of the deals I purchase are for new places. These levels are scary lo...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>What % of groupon deals have you taken as an existing customer vs. new customer?&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>When Groupon was the only player, almost all of the groupons I purchased were for new places. Since I joined LivingSocial and BuyWithMe, and since the novelty wore off, less than 50% of the deals I purchase are for new places. These levels are scary lo&#8230;</p>
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